In this episode of Lead With Soul, we dive into what trauma really means and some common misconceptions, how trauma impacts folks with marginalized identities (specifically the LGBTQIA+ community), and simple yet powerful action steps we can take to create safer spaces for our clients and communities. Shelby also guides us through a beautiful practice we can use to support us in regulating our nervous system.
Shelby Leigh has nearly 15 years of clinical practice, a Masters degree in Somatic Psychotherapy, two coaching Certificates, and numerous trainings in the Somatic treatment of trauma. Between her own journey with complex PTSD and supporting thousands of students and clients, she is ignited by supporting folks across the globe to be able to support themselves and the people they work with to move from simply surviving to truly thriving. A former licensed psychotherapist, now coach and consultant — Shelby teaches trauma awareness to coaches, therapists, healthcare professionals, and organizations worldwide. She is the founder of Creating Safer Space, Creating Safer Healthcare, and Embodied Coaching experience — online programs supporting care providers around trauma-informed care. She is also the host of the “Relationship As Medicine” Podcast — stories from trauma-aware care providers around the world.
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Trauma-awareness course for coaches, therapists, healers, and facilitators:
Creating Safer Space
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Episode 13: The positive impact of trauma-informed care with Shelby Leigh
Welcome to Lead With Soul — The podcast for spiritual entrepreneurs who are ready to build an impactful and profitable brand, create a thriving and sustainable business that aligns with your values, and experience more freedom, fulfillment, and abundance in your life and business — while making a positive difference in the world. If you’re ready to elevate your business and brand to a new level, manifest your vision into reality, and embody the leader you know you’re meant to be — this is the podcast for you. I’m your host, Kimberly King.
Hello, and welcome to another episode of Lead with Soul. Thank you so much for joining me. I am super excited for today's episode. I have a special guest Shelby Leigh. Today we're gonna dive into talking a little bit about the work that Shelby does in the world and just have some conversations. So I'm super excited. Thank you so much, Shelby, for joining me. And I would love for you to take a moment to introduce yourself, share your pronouns and tell us a little bit more about your business and the work that you do in the world.
Yeah, thank you. So I am Shelby Leigh, my pronouns are she/her. I live in Bend, Oregon these days. I am an Oregon girl, I grew up here. The work I do in the world is mostly around trauma. I am a trained somatic psychotherapist and used to see clients in private practice in Portland, for a while in San Francisco. And then I moved to Asia and took the title back of coach. I was a coach before I was a therapist. And so now I kind of do a fusion of all of those things. Supporting people, either with their own trauma and individual sessions, or more than that these days. I'm teaching worldwide programs for facilitators, coaches, therapists, doctors, around becoming more trauma-informed and trauma aware, in a way that is hopefully somatic and embodied. So many of these programs are about what you do and say, and this is more about how you be and how you be at ease in yourself in the face of trauma, either your own or others. And I really love talking about trauma, which is something I never thought I would say. So I'm excited to be here with you today.
Amazing. Yes, I am so so excited. And Shelby also has an amazing course that I am a part of called Creating Safer Space. And that sort of launched my passion for trauma-informed coaching and something that I really strongly support and believe in and highly, highly, highly recommend that course, if there is anybody out there looking to just expand their knowledge around trauma and be able to show up and create more trauma-informed, safer space for their clients and communities. So yeah, so I'd love to dive into what is trauma, maybe different misconceptions as well about trauma, and kind of demystify it a little bit would love to dive into that.
Sure. Yeah. I love explaining trauma these days in 2021, as opposed to how it used to be looked at years and years ago. I think even when I was growing up, I thought trauma was like having gone to war or having experienced sexual violence or abuse or getting in a car accident. And I hadn't realized that trauma encompasses so much more, which means it's actually not about the event. It's about how we respond to the events of our life. So how our bodies our hearts or minds, our nervous systems respond to any event, it could seem big or small. That's the thing we cannot compare. It could be emotional abuse or criticism or things that don't leave marks, you know. Actually, a lot of trauma is things that have happened to us that we can't particularly see.
And some people can walk away from an event like a car accident, for example, totally fine at ease in themselves, feeling supported and resilient, while another person can have gone through the same event rattled for the rest of their life. And that's why we look at it, not as the event, it's our response to the event. And a lot of that has to do with the support we have in our lives. The resilience we have in our hearts, or minds, or bodies, or nervous systems that we carry forward from, how we grew up, and the level of ability to stay centered, present, calm, grounded, connected. There are so many things that support us to move through really impactful frightening events that either make it or break it in terms of if we walk through life feeling quite reactive and in a trauma response, which would be something like fight or flight or freeze, or we use the term fawning now, or collapse. Or walking through the world feeling able to breathe fully with our feet on the ground and lean into support. It's just amazing the spectrum of what can happen on the other side of these events.
Yeah, super interesting. I'd love to talk a little bit about the coaching industry, maybe, and how trauma plays a factor in the coaching industry. And maybe different ways that you see that impacting people, and maybe some ways that people can be mindful of that when they're working with clients in their community.
So I make the assumption that we all have trauma. And I think it's really a disservice to just assume, 'Oh, I'm not working with trauma. Those people go to the psychotherapist or the trauma specialists. So, you know, I don't need to be mindful of that kind of thing.' So I really want to turn that on its head and say, you know, especially right now, in 2021, everyone carries trauma, whether or not they have integrated that trauma is a different story. But we are all impacted by these really, really big events of life. And so when we can know that most of us are working with trauma, automatically, we go, 'Oh, here's a responsibility here to bring a level of care that I might not have been aware of before.'
And what I see happening a lot in the coaching industry and the therapy industry - I mean, you know, not everyone therapist is trauma-informed, that's for damn sure - is that people are doing this amazing work. They have these amazing services, they're offering these interventions and modalities and "transformative" - I'm going to put those in quotes, because that's my least favorite word in the coaching industry - experiences that they're offering people that are beautiful, and no doubt, create shifts. But what I see is those shifts don't really last. And people slide back pretty easily into their old habits, their old ways of being. And this is the most common thing that I see. Coaches or service providers, care providers end up feeling frustrated, like what they're doing isn't helping, what they're doing isn't working. Or they might make their clients wrong thinking, 'Oh, but this intervention works for that person. I don't understand why it's not working for you, it must be something that has to do with you', you know, and then or firing a client because something comes up. They don't know how to work with it.
And when we are trauma-informed, we're looking at what makes sense about why my client isn't taking to these shifts or isn't integrating this exercise we're going through or we're looking through this lens of 'Ha, I'm really curious what else might be happening here?' like widening to a whole sense of the picture instead of this laser focus on if we could just shift this then everything would be better. Because my guess is if we just shifted this, we're messing with a whole coping strategy and survival system that has kept this person safe. And so if we do that, then they might feel relief for a minute, they also might feel terrified or something else. But most often, they will feel relief, and then they'll just go right back to where they were within a few weeks or a few months because that survival system is so strategically put in place by their very intelligent nervous system to help them survive.
And so when we don't support all the parts of them, when we're helping them create these shifts and adjustments in their life, and honor the parts that show up to go, 'Oh, I'm really scared to make this shift', or, 'Oh, I feel really nauseous as we're talking about that', or, 'wow, I'm getting super sLeighpy, and all of a sudden, I feel totally lethargic, I just feel like I can't do that'. And we look at those as trauma responses instead of, again, quotes, air quotes, "resistance", which I don't use either. We can know, you're something that really wants to happen here that needs a little extra support and tending so that these beautiful strategies that I know how to use can actually work because they're really great. We just need more information to be able to bring that in.
Amazing. I love that. So it really sounds like taking a more holistic and trauma-informed approach is not only incredibly beneficial for your client to really help them move through some of these things that may be deeply connected to these coping mechanisms. But it also can help coaches to really be able to use the tools and the techniques and the strategies that they have and have those be even more supportive and effective for your client. Because I think a lot of times something I have started to notice since I've gone through your course and become more trauma aware and just noticing the messaging that is used and often see a lot of things just chalked up to a mindset block, or things like that. And when we simplify things down that much, it really disregards our humaneness and lived experience. And that can also be really harmful as well. So I really love that perspective. And just all of the layers of positive impact that taking this approach has.
Yeah, it really makes me so sad that so many people are offering such incredible gifts to their clients. And I, you know, I supervise a lot of coaches and therapists, and I see them burning out and questioning themselves and doubting themselves so often. And it's often just, yes, you have beautiful intentions here. And we need a few little things in here to be more trauma-informed, that will just let these tools sink in, in a really delicious way that are very sustainable. And I see people quitting in the industry because they are losing their faith in themselves and what they learned. And the reality is, they're doing great. It's just that we can't know these things. And even with the most positive intentions, we cannot know because trauma is so tricky. It wants to confuse us. It is really hard to dance with sometimes without understanding some very simple things to put in place like that.
Like that one thing I said like, huh, is there something about this that makes sense here? You know, like, if we start just shifting our perspective, just a little, and I'm turning my body as I say that, as though like we could just move to the side and see something that we couldn't see. And trauma-informed care and trauma awareness helps us just see those things that before we were so perplexed by of like, Why isn't this working? Why do I feel like I'm not effective? And to me, that's like the gift I want to give people that are just not feeling so sure about why it's not super working in a long-term way because there are so many incredible modalities out there and they really should be working.
Yeah, it's almost kind of like taking that step back and removing yourself both either as the coach or the client too. Because I know there's been times when I felt like okay, I know what to do, but this thing just isn't working and you know, it might work for a little while, but then I kind of end up back in the same place with certain things. And being able to remove yourself a little bit from that to look at it more from that lens and to not kind of get into that either from the coach perspective of feeling like, oh, like, Why aren't the things that I'm doing? They worked with this one client, they're not working with another, that must mean maybe I'm doing something wrong, or I'm not meant to be doing this work, or whatever it might be, or from the client perspective, kind of feeling like, yeah, like, why am I not getting this? You know, why are other people? Why do other people seem to just get it easily? And there are so many different aspects too because we're all so individual and unique. So I love just really coming at it from the angle of yeah, really assuming that everyone has experienced some level of trauma, and especially everything that we collectively went through in 2020, and 2021, as well.
Something that I would love to talk a little bit about that I really loved from your course, is the concept of repairs because I know, for me, because I don't specifically work with trauma in the work that I do. But because I work with humans, it's a part of working with them. And for a while, I did have some fears around what if I say the wrong thing, or you know, I do kind of create more trauma for someone, which is definitely not what I want to do. So I really loved just learning more about repairs. And I'd love to if you're open to kind of sharing a little bit more about what that looks like so people can feel a little bit more prepared in situations where trauma may come up in some shape or form.
Absolutely, in the end that comes out of the experience. So many of us, we really care a lot, you know, I think most of us are providing care for others because we really care a lot. And some of us tend to maybe care a little too much. We were like, 'Oh, I don't want to like set them off', or 'I don't want to activate their nervous system, I don't want them to feel harmed or hurt or put back into an old trauma' and which is great. Like that's really important that we understand that that's possible. But when we tiptoe it's one of the things that is so painful for people who have trauma, a lot of people, because they're so used to people being scared of them. They're so used to people thinking they're too much or too sensitive, or they're afraid of freaking them out or vice versa. And so when we are trying not to cause harm, but we're tiptoeing because we're not confident in our trauma-informed care skills, it can cause more harm and less connection.
And connection is the number one thing in all of our relationships, that creates the change. Like we can have all the tools in the world, but it's the relationship that matters the most. And so when we're tiptoeing, we're sending these subtle messages of, 'I'm a little scared of you', or 'I don't know if I can go down this path with you', or 'let's not go over there'. And it doesn't feel so good. And it reinforces something that many of our clients experience in day-to-day life or from their families of origin. And we don't want them to be reinforcing those old things, we want them to come in and get a new reparative experience. So when we're able to trust that we are the kinds of people that can make a repair, when we have hurt someone's feelings or missed them or harmed them, it's going to enable us to be more connected. To breathe more, to be more in our seat, in our skill, in our groundedness. Because it gives an opportunity for our clients to always be able to give us feedback, even if it's not so great to hear. It takes some work to genuinely be able to trust that we're the kind of people that can receive feedback and respond in a really skillful way.
I'm not gonna lie, it's still hard for me. I'm a recovering perfectionist, terrified of conflict (used to be). But the more I realize, oh, creating repair creates connection. It creates these experiences that I didn't get when I was growing up that many other people didn't get and it's a whole experience in itself that contributes to this beautiful care and providing. And so what that looks like is, either I realize I've screwed up, or my client shares with me that something's off either really big or really small. And I take a few breaths, I'm with them, as I'm feeling into this with them. I really let it land. And in that moment, I let myself feel what the impact could have been. Even if it seems dumb. Even if I'm like, wait, I just had to move that session back 15 minutes, and they are pissed, you know. It doesn't seem like it could possibly have created that big of a reaction but then, as I'm sitting with it in my heart, and my belly, and my being, I go, Oh, there's something that really matters here about this to them. And there's something that it might be connected with, it's beyond this moment in time back in their history, or back in our history. So this is really important to slow down with, and I want to make sure I can really understand what it touched in them. And so instead of what I usually would, you would be like, Oh, I'm going to make up an excuse. I'm going to explain my way out of this. I'm going to tell them something really important happens. And no, it's like, no, this is an opportunity for connection for something for them, a gift I can give them. Ah, okay.
And then I'm going to also tend to what's happening in me, which is, this is scary. Conflict scares me. Oh, what if I've hurt their feelings? What if they leave? Anything! I'm afraid of rejection, I'm afraid of abandonment. I'm afraid of them feeling rejected, I'm afraid of them feeling a whole storm. So I tend to that and myself and then I reflect back to them what I'm hearing them say, ask them if I missed anything. I ask them if there's more that they'd like to share. And then I do the same process again, I feel it, I respond again. And then if it's appropriate, I'll apologize. I'll ask them how I can make it right. Ask them if there's anything they need or want here. I'll have them collaborate with me to figure out how we can do it differently in the future.
And then, you know, we check in, 'how does this all feel now?' Which is such a different experience than me going 'Oh, it was just 15 minutes, no problem. You know, I had a doctor's appointment, blah, blah, blah'. It's like, no, actually, if we spend the whole session on this, we're giving them a gift that they may have never received before in their life that will give them a sense of connection, empowerment, ability to trust themselves to say when something's up because it's hard to say something. So my hope is that it really gives them back something that may have been taken from them, especially if they didn't, if they have experienced trauma where they were gaslit or invalidated or dismissed over and over again and not apologized to, people didn't take responsibility for things. My hope is that this can create a soothing experience where they can continue to trust. Yes, I can speak my truth. And yes, people can show up in that moment.
That's absolutely beautiful. Yeah, I love that. I feel like that just gives everyone more opportunities to be human. Yeah. And yeah, just a really beautiful opportunity to create more of that connection and allow people to be seen and heard and validated when that may not have been their experience in the past. So I think that's really, really powerful. And also take some of the pressure off to as well from being the coach or practitioner to be perfect all the time, or always get it right, because that's just unrealistic to expect of ourselves. So yeah, I absolutely love that.
I would love to talk a little bit about how trauma intersects with maybe different communities or groups of people or identities and things like that, and just kind of dive into that a little bit.
Just that little tiny topic. Yeah.
Yeah. No biggie.
So I really loved listening to your podcast with, their name starts with an A, and it was several podcasts ago. They're talking about using your platform for your activism. Do you remember who I'm talking about?
That was, uh Meagan? Meagan Ward on activism? Oh, gosh, oh, um Ana, Ana Jones.
Yes. Okay. Yeah, no, I do love that. It was, it was right after that one. Anyways, they were, I think coaching with you, or you were coaching with them. And I loved what they were saying about, you cannot tend to all of the things you have your activism around on your platform, like every single thing. It's like too much. So it's really important to kind of focus on the things that are really, really closest near, and dear to your heart. The first thing that comes to my mind, you know, because it's my community as well, is the LGBTQIA+, though we could talk about so many communities, BIPOC communities we could talk about, there are so many intersections of folks who have experienced trauma who carry marginalized identities. And just the first one that came to my mind was the LGBTQIA+ community, because I exist within that community personally, and support a lot of folks in that community.
And bottom line, the first thing that just comes to mind and heart is, you know, anybody who lives within a marginalized community is going to be experiencing a significant amount of trauma, so much more. You know, marginalized communities face oppression, exponentially. And so we just have to know that whatever that identity is that they carry, they have been through so much. So it's just an opportunity for really, really slowing down to get curious about their own unique lived experience of it. Without them needing to educate you on the entire community, because of course nobody could.
But it's like, what is it that's here that's present with us around your own experience, if that's a topic that's up that they're wanting to attend to, that's unique to you, that needs care, needs, maybe some trauma-informed attention, right. And so I'm really passionate about all of the nuances that arrive in, you and I are speaking and I was sharing about my own experience being a bisexual woman, a cis female bisexual human that lives in this world experiencing a lot of microaggressions. And so I carry my own version of trauma. So I see through that lens, you know, it's it feels really interesting to be a very straight passing person that also carries a bisexual identity that comes with a lot of assumptions from other people. And I guess I could just stop right there, because there's so much in all of that, that we could bring this trauma-informed lens to, but curious about, if you want to share anything about your experience or curiosities about what I just said.
Yeah, definitely. I think it's so important to remember when we are working with people in marginalized communities that there is individual trauma that is potentially there, but also more on a collective scale as well, just for existing as they are in the world. And I know, for me, I just recently came out as part of the LGBTQIA+ community. So it's still a bit of a new experience for me living 'out' in the world. I have many, many experiences that, you know, I definitely think about when it comes to trauma and that sense and how those experiences have definitely played an impact in how I show up and my own perspective as well. And, you know, obviously, there are some lived experiences and ways that people move through the world that I will never understand. And that's one reason why I also love just learning more about trauma and having this approach to it and knowing that there are so many layers to it, and there's a lot, there's a lot there for sure.
It makes me think about how we carry trauma in our bodies. And you know, one definition of trauma is simply tension. We, anytime we're impacted by an experience that we feel frightened by or where we lack a sense of love or safety or belonging, we hold our breath, we tense around it. And we shape our bodies around it in response to it and I was thinking about how I used to work for an organization, a gay rights organization here in Bend 15 years ago or something, and I was left out of a meeting because I identified as bisexual. And there was a woman there who identified as lesbian who didn't count me in because I wasn't queer enough in her eyes. And, you know, that's not, of course, an experience across the board. That was just one thing. But it's also something that I've heard that happens for many folks who identify as bisexual. And I carry that with me in my whole system of like, 'Wait, I don't belong here, either?', you know. So I don't belong with the straight people. I don't belong with the queer people. And as I was thinking about it, I noticed my shoulders started curling around my heart and my neck and my head kind of came down in this defensive and sunken posture, like my heart just sank. But also kind of like, out, you know, like bracing against feeling left out feeling judged. And I think my body still carries that over a decade later, of 'Where do I belong?', like, 'Who will see me? Who will celebrate me for this experience I have as a queer-identified person?' And that felt traumatic, it really impacted my ability here in this town, to feel out in a way that felt authentic to me, I ended up moving to San Francisco, like a lot of queer people, and feeling much more able to like, live my own life as a queer-identified person looking how I want to look expressing how I want to express. But still here in this town, I feel my body shaped like that, from that experience, which was one among many.
Oh my gosh, ah, I definitely deeply resonate with that, as well as someone who identifies as pansexual. And I am in a very happy, straight passing relationship. And so, to the outside world, there's often yeah, those assumptions about how I identify, who I am. And that can be really painful in a lot of ways too. And sometimes, it's just those little comments.
I think that's also why it's so important to use more gender-neutral language, when we're speaking to people and to sort of leave assumptions out of conversations so that we can really do our part in not creating those what might be seemingly small things that can have a really massive impact, right. I think that also really speaks to the power of connection, like you were saying, right, and finding those people who really do hold that space for you to be who you are and feel authentic.
I am part of a community as well, that Megs has created called the Queer Impact Collective. It was interesting because we were having a conversation around this, about this idea of not feeling queer enough, and every single person on the call raised their hand that they have felt that way, at some point or another. It was just really interesting to notice that there's also sort of that collective experience as well. I feel like it really is a good lesson to kind of be mindful of how we're also showing up in the world and being able to create those safer spaces for other people to feel like, you know, they do belong, right. It's not like you have to look this certain way or act a certain way to be a part of this community. And I feel like that does also come back to the safety feeling. And I think that's why I really love learning more about trauma and how it affects the body as well so that we can create more of that safety within ourselves so that we can move through the world authentically, and not have that feeling of like, it's not safe for me to be who I am here. So that's a really terrible feeling for sure.
Absolutely. And I think that's what it really boils down to, when we're attending to trauma is we're trying to create a space where people can feel safe enough to connect to themselves and to connect to us because again, that relationship, it can either be really healing or it can exacerbate that past trauma. And so I love what you said around we need to be really mindful and not make assumptions when people show up in front of us. And when we are able to open our perspectives and have our language be more inclusive and caring, not making those assumptions - that is trauma awareness.
That's not creating those aggressions or microaggressions that people have been experiencing in their communities and our families their lives, and then re-performing that in the relationship so unconsciously and we can prevent that. We just need to learn how, you know, and it takes a little time to learn, but then it becomes really natural. And sometimes we screw it up, and then we get to make repairs. And that leaves a lot more space for us, as care providers, and it also leaves a lot more space for our clients to really be able to reveal themselves to us and feel supported by us.
Yeah, absolutely. I love that those are things that we can do, just we can start that today. Obviously, I think it's really important to expand our knowledge in coming more trauma aware and trauma-informed really deepen our knowledge and our skillset around it. But there are also just tiny little things we can do like using more inclusive language that we can start today. And it can take the tiniest effort but have such a massive positive impact.
Yes, I absolutely agree with you 100%. And it is actually simple things that we can learn, and it creates so much ease. And I was telling you earlier, I was putting my dishes away. And I had this thought where it was like, 'Wow, if I only would have known how much easier my life would be and my work would be with my clients with trauma awareness because for so long, I thought learning about trauma, it'd be so daunting and so heavy and so scary. But really, it feels so much lighter and spacious and easy to connect. And it's such a game-changer for me.
Amazing, I absolutely love that. If we have some space to maybe go through a quick technique that we can use to kind of support us in this process. If we're maybe working through trauma ourselves or something maybe that we can share with our clients if you have any quick techniques or processes that you feel called to share.
Yeah, I'll do kind of two in one. So we'll start from the outside and then move towards the inside. And for some of us, we feel more able to settle and be centered and present connecting with the outside. For some of us the inside. And so we can just use this practice as building information, getting to know our own nervous systems in our bodies. So if at any point, anything feels uncomfortable, you can just put it aside, you don't need to do it. One or the other, you might notice feels more supportive. And so we'll just take a couple of minutes here. And if we can all take some time and just look around our spaces. This is called orienting where it's almost like you could look around with fresh eyes as though this is the very first time you see in the space you're in. Very slowly scanning up and down, all around. Even behind where you are, using your hips to turn your shoulders.
And as you look around, pay special attention to anything that feels soothing or comforting to look at. Might be a texture or color. An object. And if you find something, let your eyes just explore whatever it is for a few breaths here and notice what happens inside and then you can allow your attention to begin to travel inwards and can either drop your eyes downwards and focus at a point in front of you so your eyes don't become distracting or close your eyes. Whatever feels most comfortable to you. And then just take some gentle full breaths into your belly. As gentle and easy as possible.
Notice where your breath is most free as you breathe in and out here. If it feels good to you, you can place a hand on your belly as your inhale and exhale goes in and out. You might just notice the warmth of your hand and the movement of your belly. As you're noticing, see if there's anything that feels good about it. And we'll take just a few more breaths here soaking up anything that feels comforting or supportive or soothing anything at all.
And then we can stay connected to anything that feels helpful as we bring our attention back out into the room and into our days. We can return to any part of this practice that feels supportive anytime.
That was beautiful.
Yes, yeah. You can do that literally anywhere, at any time. Well, maybe not if you're driving.
Eyes on the road, but you can totally feel your breath and your belly.
Yes, yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing that beautiful practice. I love that. I'd love to just wrap up with sharing how everyone can connect with you, any offerings that you currently have that you'd like to share. We also have a discount code as well to share with everyone listening. And how people can connect with you and how they can work with you.
Yeah, so I have a couple of programs that are currently open for enrollment. One is Creating Safer Space, which is the one that you talked about. And that's for coaches, therapists, and care providers of all kinds. And then there's also creating Safer Healthcare which is for medical and healthcare professionals. Everyone from the doctors and physicians to the receptionists from alternative to mainstream. And you can find them both. One is creatingsaferspace.com, one is creatingsaferhealthcare.com. You can also find me on all the social medias - Shelby Leigh.
And those are the best ways to connect with me right now. I have lots of offerings like coaching, coaches, supervising coaches, therapists, and other things too, I'm sure. Just yeah, check it out. I have all of my attention right now, on Creating Safer Healthcare because we're just putting out this week. And I'm so excited. And so that is where my brain is at.
Amazing, thank you so much. I will put links to where you can connect with Shelby in the show notes as well as your offerings and the discount code as well. If anyone is interested in joining Creating Safer Space, I 100,000% recommend it and absolutely love that program. It honestly changed the way that I approached my business and also has really positively impacted me personally. So I will definitely share that. And yeah, thank you so much Shelby for being here. It's been an absolute honor, I am super grateful for you coming on and sharing your wisdom. And yeah, really appreciate you being here. So thank you.
Thank you so much for having me. I have to say I just love, love, love the work that you're doing. And I know I've told you this before but your stories and your posts on Instagram. They're one of the only stories and posts I like to engage with and look at because I feel more awake. I feel more inspired. I feel more educated. I feel like I actually want to be engaged when I'm reading your posts and I don't feel that sense of doom and dread. I feel clearer about what's important to me and what's important to you and I always am like yeah, 'I just want to be your friend. I just want to hang out with her. She's doing really good stuff in a way that just works for me'. And not only in your social media, I know that translates down to how you work with clients. So thank you so much for your incredible work as well and for having me today.
Thank you so much. That was absolutely beautiful. I so appreciate you. I'm so grateful that we connected. And yeah, just excited to continue to know you and to learn from you and to hopefully be in conversation with you and super grateful. Thank you so much. And thank you everyone for listening to today's episode and I will see you all on the next one.
Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of Lead With Soul. I'm so grateful for your support and excited to have you in this community. If you would like to hear more episodes of Lead with Soul and be the first to know when new episodes are released, please subscribe to the podcast and connect with me on social media. If you receive value from today's episode, I would love for you to leave a positive review or share the podcast on your social media channels and tag me so I can connect with you. You can find me on Facebook and Instagram or visit my website here. You can find more episodes of Lead With Soul and show notes here. See you on the next episode of Lead With Soul.